Fireside chat with Tim Oliver Pröhm, Vice President, KellyX Digital Innovation Lab


Jan Jedlinski: Welcome back to the World Staffing Summit, in our very interesting fireside chat conversation that I will have with some very special guests. He is the VP of Kelly X digital innovation lab. And I'm super excited to welcome Tim Oliver Prohm here to the World Staffing Summit. Welcome Tim.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Hey thank you Jan.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And thank you so much for having me honestly, great event. Great speaker lineup. I'm really honored to be here. Thanks for having me. 

Jan Jedlinski: Thanks Tim. So, you know, I'm super interested to talk to staffing leaders these days and hear about their challenges and their problems. And what is at the top of their minds for the industry.

Jan Jedlinski: Before we dive in, and I know, you know, on your LinkedIn, it says that you are building essentially a new methodology that yields 10 X impact on our industry. You know, 10% improvement. So I'm super excited to learn more about your thoughts when it comes to that. But before we dive into some questions, tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey in the staffing industry.

Jan Jedlinski: I know you've been around in industry for a while, so maybe you can tell the audience, you know, a little bit about your background.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Yeah, absolutely. Honestly, it's my 20th year in the industry. It started kinda like in 2002 in Germany working for a staffing company called dis, which was eventually acquired by the Adecco group.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And I started as a branch manager and I entered the industry by accident. Honestly, I was kind of looking for a new job. It was kind of like 2002 was the depression after 9/11, everything broke down. And I kinda went to the staffing branch and then basically the recruiter came in and said, Hey, I'm so sorry.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Everything is a bit upside down because our branch manager just quit. I'm like, that's an interesting thing. So I went back home, I looked at the like at the job description that had been published and like a day later and I applied and I got the job and then kind like, as everybody, I think of the staffing industry, I kinda like by accident, like joined the industry and then started as a branch manager, really doing everything from recruiting to selling, to really going door to door for, to acquire new customers here in Northern Germany, where I live.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Eventually get promoted focused on large accounts sales. Kindof managing the outsourcing business for the Adecco group, which is now known as Pontoon. And then kinda like after 13 years left Addeco worked as an independent consultant focused on technology, implementation, digital strategy.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And that's then when Kelly found me and hired me to kind of rebuild or redesign the RPO strategy, which I did for like two years, and then eventually I kind of moved into a product development role where I develop new digital solutions. Working with a lot of different technology vendors working with our Kelly Digital innovation fund to really make sure that I identify kind of like new tools, new kinds of technologies that allow us to find candidates to serve our clients better.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Yeah. And this is where I am today and now kind of like the latest kind of role that I took your first Kelly X kinda like a more formalized incubator that we just developed and yeah, many more years in front of me. Very exciting. Industry certainly has changed over the last 20 years.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: You can definitely tell. 

Jan Jedlinski: Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm super excited also to learn more about Kelly X digital, the innovation lab. I know that it's a fairly new initiative as far as I understand, but maybe you can give us a little bit more overview about it. Is it really an incubation lab for technologies that you will be breeding for the industry and offer to others, or is it just more for internal technologies and innovations?

Jan Jedlinski: Tell us more about this. 

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Yeah. So, it's a combination. So kinda like in the past, when you think about how staffing organizations usually approach technology, you like gathering requirements, you, for example, you want to buy a new front office system. So you gather requirements, you talk to a lot of different stakeholders, you identify your processes, you think about process optimization and then you go to the vendor and then basically the vendor implements something and it's going to take 12 months, 18.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: 24, whatever it is, five years in large organizations. And what we've realized is that kinda like on our customer side, but also on the talent side, there's an appetite for innovation. A lot of our customers come to us and say, Hey, what's the latest and greatest. And how can we benefit from all these different technologies that are emerging out there?

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Because realistically, when you think about the HR tech market, there are several thousand startups that offer solutions and a lot of buyers are overwhelmed. So basically kinda like one of the core kinds of challenges we had to say, okay, how can we make sure we have a good understanding of the market? So how can we track what's happening in the startup market?

Tim Oliver Pröhm: How can we make sure we assess and identify new technologies conducted before like our clients and also before our competitors and how can we make sure we validate that they are really delivering. What they're promising they will deliver. And that's basically kind of where that incubation process kinda then was developed, something we've been following for a couple of years now where we say, Hey, what are the use cases?

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Let's spend some budget. Let's kind of identify the opportunities that this technology brings. And then after we validated that it's working kind of like we can go out and serve it to our client. The other aspect you also touched is kinda like, what are the net new kinda solutions. I'll give you an example of, like, we recently completed an exercise where we went kind of like through an analysis of the mega trends, because the question for me personally, Kind of what's going to happen in 2030, 2035, because that's what my leadership asks for me.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Kind of, what do we need today as a Kelly organization to be successful in 2035? How will Candidate interact with staffing agencies? How will customers interact with staffing agencies? How are things like Siri like experience going to impact how Candidates interact with us as an organization and not like in the Kelly X approach, we're doing a lot of rapid prototyping.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: To make sure that people have something tangible to see, to feel, to experience before we go out and make an investment decision. So, honestly kinda like a lot of blue sky thinking, a lot of playing around with mock-ups and really applying lean startup methodology, where we gather a lot of feedback from different stakeholder groups, just to make sure that we're on the right path.

Jan Jedlinski: Great. And do you build these essentially teams internally? So you basically get her groups that are, you know, prototyping specific products, or do you also invest in bringing in external companies to come in, you know, into this innovation lab and work together with you? 

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Exactly. So I think as an, so I think the.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Kinda like most staffing organizations understand and recognize that some point is that we are not a software company. So we have a great IT organization. We have great people with digital skill sets, but we don't have 150 coders sitting somewhere that could build new technology. So like what we're doing, we have a core team kind of thing.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: We can develop things on our own platforms. We use a lot of different technologies. We had a lot of development resources that can configure technologies. By the way, for me personally, the better way for the staffing industry kind of like to move technology, kinda like innovation forward. And then we partner with a lot of different companies can be grown up.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Companies can be startups to make sure that kind of, they get insight from what we're doing, but they have like the development muscle that we don't have and don't want to build just because that's not our core, core competency. So it's like a mix of yeah. 

Jan Jedlinski: And there was an interesting point that you touched, you know, 2030, 2035.

Jan Jedlinski: How will the staffing experience look like? You know, how will clients, or how will candidates interact? What will be the role of the recruiter? What are your thoughts on this? Do you have specific predictions that you can make? I know this is very broad, but w you know, how do you envision the industry and how do you envision the role of both the recruiter and the interaction of clients and candidates over the next couple of years.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: So honestly, I feel that there's going to be massive changes ahead of us, and it's always tempting to kinda like, say like, oh, everything's going to change. Everything's going to be kinda different. But I think that the staffing industry is ripe for that. And I'm still, honestly, I'm really surprised that none of the big digital players like the Goggles and Facebooks have really approached that space just because it's a $450 billion business.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: It's really kind and offers good margins for digital players. So I feel that the staffing organizations kinda like will have to change just because there's a different expectation when it comes to the experience. So think about a Candidate that is ordering something on Amazon or killing having a WhatsApp or text message exchange with their kinda like cell phone provider.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: It's a staffing organization or staffing industry. We very often we don't we don't offer that. So that's kinda like something that customers and talent will expect from a customer perspective. Pretty much the same thing. I think that the existing staffing process that we have is not sustainable. The reason is that when you think about a traditional staffing process, I want to hire somebody through a contingent staffing agency.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: I called the branch, or I posted something in my vendor management system. It gets distributed to the suppliers. They look in their pools, they post job ads, or they like source people on LinkedIn. And then a couple of days later, they come back. So think about a similar experience on Amazon. I want to buy a pair of sneakers.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: I go to Amazon and I say, Hey, this is the specific size 12, have black and red and whatever it is. And then a couple of days later, somebody from Amazon comes back and sends me five recommendations. Hey, here's one from Nike, here's one from Adidas. So that's not sustainable. And I think kinda like everything that's going to happen is going to be much more aligned to what we're already starting to see in the human cloud.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Because when you go to platforms like freelancer Upwork, 99 designs, like all the big players, they provide something that hiring managers probably haven't recognized. They will want it at some point in time, because that is instant gratification. Go to the platform, you'll look for talent. It pops up 150 profiles and it gives the hiring manager the perceived kind of option of choice.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And I think that is something that as a staffing industry kind of, we need to be better at, we were too slow. And I think if we're not accelerating, then we're going to have a problem. We're just going to be irrelevant at some point. I agree. 

Jan Jedlinski: And I think that also comes back to, you know, automation and how can I create this automated process that will help me to create this pool of candidates that are available.

Jan Jedlinski: You know, we've seen each other often in the past just being a couple. Attempts to build recruiter marketplaces, and then staffing agency marketplaces where the process was pretty similar. Like when you post a job, you know, some recruiters or agencies will see it. Some will respond, some will not. And then it takes a couple of days for anything to happen.

Jan Jedlinski: Right. But I think a big part of that is that often a staffing company does not know who is currently available, the automation is not there on their side and their applicant tracking system. The redeployments of candidates that are on assignment on a contingent basis is not great yet. So I think improvements on that side, we'll make this entire shift to this instant gratification for the clients super important.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Jan Jedlinski: So, when you look at, you know, we talked a little bit about clients and we talked a little about candidate experience. Also, what do you think about the recruiter? I know that, you know, over the last five to 10 years, people are talking about AI and the recruiters disappearing and, you know, true to less process.

Jan Jedlinski: What is your take on that? Do you see it being, you know, a mix of tech and human touch or do you see it more, a human touch than tech? What is your take on. 

Tim Oliver Pröhm: So I think it's really, depending on the roles you're sourcing and recruiting for. So I'm like, I'll give you an example. Like a lot of people say, Hey, you can't do a recruiter list, pricing, sourcing, and recruiting process.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And honestly, and I think you can for certain roles. So give you an example, kinda like we just kinda like last. Went live with a program in the United States with a large customer of Kelly and they wanted to hire 600 people in a certain region in the US and they kind of struggled with their traditional processes just because there was high competition for four blue collar talent in that space.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And the traditional processes, kinda like we were able to apply with not fast enough for what. So basically you took a technical solution that we had built for the RPO space for a high volume hiring approach and kind of went live last night, pushed a lot of social media campaigns.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And basically kinda like a fairly straightforward process. People see the ad, they have online, offline flyers, they text a keyword, they receive a link to a mobile optimized apply page. They apply, they kind of respond to a couple of knockout questions. We have some light AI that's actually kind like assessing the response to the questions.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And then kinda like a couple of minutes later they can self-schedule the interview. So I think we had like, First, I think like 30 minutes we had like 20 people, 20 people applied and they went through kinda like the first process step until the kind of scheduling process within kind of like four to five minutes.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: I think it was like four minutes, 50 on average. And I think that is kinda like this. You kind of need to think about going forward. And obviously it's a blue collar environment. So the limit, the number of questions is limited. You understand if somebody can do the job or if they can't. So I think in these high volume solutions, that's going to be called something that we're going to see.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Kind like, I dunno IT, engineering all this stuff. I don't think so. I think the role of the recruiter will definitely change and it will be much more focused on relationship building because the one thing that we're traditionally bad at, and I think the one thing that customers are very bad is it's really selling contingent job opportunities to candidates.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Yeah. We always had an abundance of candidates in the US and in Europe. And we always say, Hey, staffing is a commodity. A lot of buyers thought about that. And I think this is not the case anymore, because you really need to think about why your job is relevant and kinda like enriching that contingent talent.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: So the experience it's going to be more important. And I think the recruiter. Is so key when it comes to providing a great experience to the candidate. In addition, obviously to the technical touch points, the digital touch points that every candidate has, but it needs to work in tandem. So that's kinda like my take on that.

Jan Jedlinski: Yeah. Great. And I think a good combination of, you know, the tech and and the human touch, but there's also the brand aspect of, you know, how important. Brand for you. If you look across the staffing industry, there are some very modern new providers that create very great brands. In my opinion both for, you know, attracting candidates with a specific niche.

Jan Jedlinski: Great example. I always like to mention this, the mom project in the US where it has a very great brand, you know, very specific to you know, to target their audience. And there are a few otters. I have a conversation with Frederick from ZenJobs up later today, also about great brands in Germany. What is your take on that? Do you think staffing companies need to step up their game in terms of how they present themselves and do you think they need to go deeper into, you know, a niche or be more generalists? What is your take on that? 

Tim Oliver Pröhm: So, honestly I feel that everybody. That touches contingent talent.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: A kinda needs to focus more on branding. Staffing industry for sure has been kinda like a very saturated market. You have a lot of players that have been in the market for many years. Kelly has been on the market for 75 years and like the overall messaging kind of stayed the same for many many years.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: We have the jobs kinda like we have entry-level jobs for people who don't work anywhere else. And I think this is something where new providers have an opportunity to approach everything with a fresh look, with a fresher design and also with a fresher and updated experience. I think kinda like the traditional staffing companies I was included like understand that and kinda like know that we need to provide kind of better branding, more ambitious experience expectations for.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: But so do the clients. And I think that is kind of like one of the biggest realizations that I had. I'll give you an example. Like us, a couple of years ago we launched a new solution around what we call direct sourcing, which has been one of the biggest topics in the industry for many years. A lot of customers, they say.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Why not just post contingent jobs on our career page, people will come by, people will apply. And then we just kinda like employing them via payroll provider versus the staffing agency. And then we kinda like saving a couple of percentages and it's going to be great savings, all good. And kinda like all of the self-managed programs I've seen so far have not been successful.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And one of the core reasons is like first, like, candidates find contingent jobs. I mean, simple Google trends like search would have shown them that like nobody's looking for contingent jobs with their company. But the other thing is, I think nobody understands that there is the need for a contingent value prop.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Because we all talk about the employee value proposition about kinda like the social benefits about kinda like the cafeteria, all the great things that we provide for full-time talent. But if you're a good contractor or you're a good contingent worker, why do you want to work in that organization?

Tim Oliver Pröhm: What are the benefits and the majority of companies. I see out there in the market. Usually they don't do that at all. They still treat them as a commodity. So, I know the lengthy response, I think from a branding perspective, there's definitely room for more. I think the industry needs to be bolder and needs to develop different chronic and more value propositions.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Also specific to the individual job secret types they're working with because otherwise we're going to be irrelevant. That's just the harsh reality of where we operate. 

Jan Jedlinski: And do you think, you know, the topic of direct sourcing and I know it's a buzz word over the last one and a half, two years.

Jan Jedlinski: That basically is all over the place. And everybody is trying to create a direct sourcing program. Is that a threat for a traditional staffing company 

Tim Oliver Pröhm: or an opportunity? So I don't think it's a threat yet. And the reason is that a lot of companies are doing it wrong. I think it has the potential to grow because realistically, when you think about, as I said earlier, how these programs have started you post contingent jobs, you hope for people to apply.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: There's like zero. People don't apply. And if they applied, as we discussed earlier, you have no idea. If the person is still kind of interested in your job kinda like the moment they applied, it's becoming historical data. They may have updated the resume. You don't know about that. That's basically why the expectations kind of organizations have, are very often.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Fulfilled. So I feel that there are ways to do it better from a digital perspective. I'm probably biased just because we offer that and full disclosure as a service for our KellyOCG kind like a lot of MSP clients. Yeah. I think the thing that kind of people need to understand is that there's no way that candidates will, automagically kind of join your talent pool.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: You're a talent community, and then go back to a portal, update their data on a regular basis. And you're just tapping when you need it. There's a lot of sweat and tears involved in the sourcing process where you need new tools, you need to make sure people stay engaged. You need to bring update or resume update technology in AI sourcing technology, just to make sure the pool stays relevant and kinda like the one thing there's a term that software competitors are using.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: I actually liked that very much the concept of the talent river versus the talent pool, because the pool is very often stale and steady. But you constantly need to bring new talent in. You constantly need to make sure that records are updated. If that is done. I think direct sourcing. Kinda like a good approach, not for all roles, but for the kind of good percentage of roles that our customer is sourcing for us.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: So this will become more relevant in the future. If it's a threat, I'm not sure. Like, we'll see how the county organizations adopt kinda like the new processes, but as it is, I think there's definitely room for improvement and not so much to worry about it. 

Jan Jedlinski: Got it. I, then I, and I agree. I think, you know, that also goes back a little bit to the employer brand, right?

Jan Jedlinski: If you have a good employer brand, you know, you'll get inbound candidates more and more, and you can sort of probably build a better direct sourcing program. Maybe if your brand is not as strong, you still need this curation aspect, which again, gets back to the staffing company being more present than just fewer direct sourcing technology.

Jan Jedlinski: So, yeah, but thanks. Thanks for those insights. Maybe we shift gears a little bit and talk about some markets. You know, I know we are both in Europe, I'm sitting here in Vienna. You're in Germany, but both of us work a lot with the US. So we've been traveling to the US over the last years and working in the US market.

Jan Jedlinski: What is your take on the, you know, the state of the HR tech market in Europe? Is it far behind the US in terms of innovation? Do you see new players coming up now? In the last couple of years that you know, that can basically catch up with what's happening in the US. What is your take on that?

Tim Oliver Pröhm: So honestly, I think there's a vibrant startup market in Europe. One of the biggest success stories obviously has a person of color becoming a unicorn now. I really love these stories, I think the advantage that startups and new technologies in the US have is that the market is bigger.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Kinda like when you think about it, there's 320 million people in the United States, you have a very kind like very harmonious market, so to speak. So everybody's speaking the same language, everybody's operating under the same legal collect constraints, and then it's easier for you to scale if you're in the US, just because kinda like the budgets are there, the buyers were open and then basically you have like a one to like marketplace.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Whereas in Europe, obviously, You probably have Germany, France, and the UK is one of the largest economies there. But it still needs to be customized. I think that's one of the core, core issues you have. If you go. Kinda like a German company. If you go to a French company and say, Hey, sorry, our tool is only available in English.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: You're going to have a problem. And that's basically kind of like something where I believe that kinda like a multinational colleague startup that's focused on the US market called have an opportunity to scale faster. The other thing that I always recognize is a lot of people I know, complain about.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And they're like, yeah, we can't do that. Data. Privacy is kind of killing us and it's also much better in the US or a lot of people don't realize that in the U S there's also legislation that's becoming more similar to what we're seeing in the European union with GDPR. So the limitations are almost the same.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And I also feel that data privacy is a good thing. So if you're a European startup, That is something that you can use to your advantage because complying with data privacy will become a major topic going forward, no matter what geography you work on. So I think that as a European kind like startup organization, you can do much more.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: You can really kinda leverage your kind of expertise on that topic and then kind of aggressively push that. The one other thing that I kind of, where I see a difference is that in general, kinda like companies in the US are more. I think that's kinda like something I've learned.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: They understand, Hey, I need to get the job done. I need to fill the roles. I need to find talent. Hey, we haven't tried. That sounds promising. Okay. Like tell them, tell me, does work show me, does this work? Okay. Whereas in Europe very often when we talked to clients also in the past, it was like, okay, I need five case studies.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: So I need seven customers from my specific industry that sourced these specific candidate profiles and kindly show me how. How you were successful, help them fill their old position because nobody wants to kind of take any risks, which is understandable because then obviously with risk, there's always not always reward.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: But the thing is that like in the US people are more open and accept failure a bit more. They say, Hey, let's do a pilot. Didn't work. These were the reasons okay. When we burned a couple of dollars, but in general, that's not going to change the overall direction. So I think that's like the mentality.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: That's also coming into play. We need to take a look at it from a European perspective. 

Jan Jedlinski: I liked that. Yeah. I agree. I think you know what we've seen also with our business when we moved to the US in 2017, here from Austria. It was just the openness you know, people are more open to try things out also to say no real quick versus, holding you all for, or pushing you back.

Jan Jedlinski: And I think that's where maybe the European buyers could also, you be more open to just try things out. So I think that's definitely, yeah. An interesting perspective. I know that we only have a couple more minutes left here is super interesting conversation. Time is flying by like crazy.

Jan Jedlinski: You know, we were talking a little about technology. I'm curious, just, do you have any, I know you mentioned personal favorite tools and not to make any promotion here, but just, you know, curious what type of technologies you're currently using and what do you see as upcoming that you follow over the last, like one or two years?

Jan Jedlinski: That is interesting to you. 

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Yeah. So I'm not going to call out any vendors because I think there's two, two things that are kind of interesting for me in general. And that might also be interesting for anybody in the audience. So one, one toolkit. I use Microsoft a lot for prototyping Microsoft.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: So kinda like we do a lot of work on Microsoft power automate Microsoft power apps and kind of one of the favorite tools I use is Microsoft power virtual agents, which actually for those of you here in the audience that don't know it, it's basically kinda like a toolkit to build your own chat bots and kind like this is something that we're using a lot among other tools to really rapidly mock up solutions and to kind of showcase how kind of like a voice-based AI.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Interaction or natural language processing could look like. So I think that's kinda like something that I use a lot because technology has become so much more affordable in the past. When you think about a client four or five years ago, you needed to have a vendor. They needed to kind of like code specific commands into a chat bot.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And now everything is much more accessible and there's no excuse for any staffing organization to not explore use cases in things like AI or automation. I kinda like the arena. That's like the one thing that I use a lot. And then the other thing, it's also not a traditional HR technology, but kind of like I'm a big fan of Miro.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: I'm sure. If you use that as basically an online collaboration tool that goes far beyond the traditional kinda like features that a typically whiteboard kinda night, might have. I think this is something that really changed also how kinda we collaborate across time zones, kind of like a cross company borders.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: We use it for a lot of kinds of workshops with clients. And I think that online collaboration is becoming such an important thing because I feel that even if. Like when COVID is over, at some point in time, we're not going to go back to this till the office structures we had in place before, before COVID and I think this is something where kind of like online collaboration, being creative, developing new solutions will stay relevant across kinda like the virtual world.

Tim Oliver Pröhm: And I think this is why tools like that are going to be super important for every organization to learn and understand. And then. 

Jan Jedlinski: I agree. We use a Miro as well. It's definitely great to help us collaborate remotely, all over the world. So, yeah. Thanks for those insights.

Jan Jedlinski: I, we're going to the end of our session, are you ready for a couple of rapid fire questions? Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. Awesome. Tim permanent or contingent? 

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Contingent.Flexible looks beautiful. I mean, that's the thing. 

Jan Jedlinski: Got it. Built or Partner?

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Partner. 

Jan Jedlinski: Very good touch or tech? 

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Touch.

Jan Jedlinski: Read, or Watch?

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Watch

Jan Jedlinski: What's the latest you've watched on Netflix or any other platforms?

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Disney plus actually on the weekends. So it was a pretty cool movie, actually. 

Jan Jedlinski: Okay, cool. Tim, it was a pleasure to have this conversation with you really great insights. I hope the audience enjoyed that. And yeah, I'm looking forward to staying in touch with you and catch up catch up soon.

Jan Jedlinski: Thank you so much, everybody for joining the session. If you have questions you can also put them onto the chat. We'll be able to answer them here. Unfortunately, we're running out of time already today. But yeah, stick around for the conference. We have great content coming up today and it's on Thursday and Friday.

Jan Jedlinski: So I'll see you later and thanks so much again to Tim. Perfect. 

Tim Oliver Pröhm: Thank you. Thanks.


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